Comments for Kosovo, curtain-raiser for Iraq, still in search of a solution at http://www.pacificfreepress.com , comment 1 to 14 out of 14 comments http://www.pacificfreepress.com Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:35:36 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/835-kosovo-curtain-raiser-for-iraq-still-in-search-of-a-solution.html#comment-1156 Though never mentioned, like the ghost at the banquet, the word “independence” hovered over virtually every line of the proposals for Kosovo’s future, drawn up by UN special envoy, Martti Ahtisaari. It remains to be seen if the UN will accept a plan that will ultimately give Kosovo a great deal more than the autonomy it was supposed to enjoy within the old Yugoslav Federation. The argument that the formal departure of the last part of the once Serb-dominated Yugoslavia is the final part of a peaceful settlement for the Balkans, is unfortunately dubious. The creation of a European statelet of around 1.5 million ethnic Albanians and 100,000 now-beleaguered Serbs who may emigrate to Serbia is no guarantee of stability. Kosovo is one of the poorest regions in Europe. Clan rivalries locally and with Albanians in Albania itself are likely to challenge the growth of reliable state institutions. Union with Albania would probably create many difficulties, both regionally and within the conjoined territories. If, however, an independent Kosovo becomes an economic basket case — which would seem likely without massive investment — its people will be prey to outside interference, not least from drug barons. Reports already suggest traffickers are trying to use the area as a staging post into the EU. The Serbian reaction to the Ahtisaari proposals was predictable and demonstrated the fundamental psychological flaw in that country’s thinking. Though some politicians in Belgrade realize it is time to move on, the popular mood is still one of anger and protest because this dirt-poor region was once the heartland of Serbia’s medieval empire, later crushed by Ottoman armies. Thus Serbs once again see themselves as the helpless victims of history. They protest their powerlessness and rue their fate. This negativity feeds the grudges and perceived wrongs by which nationalist-thinking Serbs identify themselves. Yet, a positive approach following enforced withdrawal from Kosovo in 1999 could have had remarkably different results. What might have happened if, instead of bemoaning their defeats and the injustices they believed lay behind them, the Serbs had sought to deal with ethnic Albanian Kosovars — or indeed any other people who once were in the Yugoslav Federation — in a positive fashion? Suppose they had set out to win hearts and minds, had admitted past errors and started to tell anyone who would listen that they had changed? They could have said that too much blood had been shed, too much destroyed to permit old prejudices and rivalries to continue. Nothing could change the past, but everyone, by working together in partnership, had a very good chance of changing the future. Unfortunately, with the exception of muted initiatives to Bosnia and Croatia, the Serbs have simply not tried to rebuild bridges. They have not looked forward. They still want to change history. And that is a very dangerous desire. - a guest Sun, 04 Feb 2007 21:26:58 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/835-kosovo-curtain-raiser-for-iraq-still-in-search-of-a-solution.html#comment-1059 German rival! So, why did Germany destroy Yugoslavia through its Croat and Slovene puppets? Certainly, they were better off before the post-Tito meddling than they are now. - a guest Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:07:05 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/835-kosovo-curtain-raiser-for-iraq-still-in-search-of-a-solution.html#comment-1058 Yes, as evidenced by their prolific output of .......Yugos? By their harmonious interethnic relations? Until Tito's boot came off their necks and they resumed the conflict and bloodshed that marks their history. Yugoslavia disintegrated because it was ruled by a dictator under a flawed political/economic system. - a guest Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:32:26 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/835-kosovo-curtain-raiser-for-iraq-still-in-search-of-a-solution.html#comment-1054 What undid Yugoslavia was Germany's hasty recognition of Slovenia. What has never been explored is the role of Germany, other EU countries, and even the US in provoking the destruction of Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia was a potentially strong economic rival for Germany (and potentially socialist) and could not be left intact. The Slovenes and Croats were useful foils in destroying this potential economic powerhouse. Turkey, another potential economic powerhouse on Europe's doorstep, is just another target for destruction through manipulated minority conflicts. Western imperialism will tolerate no rivals! Divide and conquer is to rule. - a guest Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:11:20 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/835-kosovo-curtain-raiser-for-iraq-still-in-search-of-a-solution.html#comment-1051 Too bad so few people will get the benefit of reading this article! Mainstream media will not print anything like this. - a guest Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:29:16 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/835-kosovo-curtain-raiser-for-iraq-still-in-search-of-a-solution.html#comment-1050 typical Albanian propaganda. If Serbia wanted to create a "Greater Serbia" they sure had a chance as anyone can see here (which they DID NOT); http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia Although in 1915 the Serbian Assembly had pledged itself to work for the liberation of all Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, non-Serb members of the Yugoslav Committee became alarmed when the Allies offered Serbia lands that had not been reserved for Italians. These included Bosnia, Herzegovina, Slavonia, Bačka and parts of Dalmatia. Croat members of the Committee feared a carve-up of Croat lands between Serbia and Italy. as usual the debate is just to easy. you have made immature statments in the first few posts, I responded to EVERY single one of your points (you have responded to none of mine and just try to change the subject when confronted with the truth). TRUTH is as we speak KOSOVO IS STILL PART OF SERBIA (8 years later, time is just passing by hahaha) - a guest Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:27:25 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/835-kosovo-curtain-raiser-for-iraq-still-in-search-of-a-solution.html#comment-1045 I'm surprised and flattered, as the author of this article, to find it faithfully reproduced here, and I have read the comments on it above -- or rather the first comment on it followed by further comments on the comment -- with interest and a certain sadness. I hope, though, that any others with comments to contribute on my original article will write them under the original, at [url]http://www.barder.com/ephems/641[/url] as well as here! [b]Brian[/b] [url]http://www.barder.com/ephems/[/url] - a guest Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:52:20 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/835-kosovo-curtain-raiser-for-iraq-still-in-search-of-a-solution.html#comment-1044 Waah, waah. Poor Serbia. Couldn't participate in rational, civilized diplomacy with any of the regional actors as Yugoslavia dissolved. Defeated repeatedly on the miltary front when they tried to impose their bigoted vision of Greater Serbia on their neighbors. Now their supporters are left only with the crumpled remnants of Milosevic's propaganda to soothe their egos. Even the Montenegrins couldn't stand to be associated with the rabid nonsense spewing from Belgrade. Serbia is losing Kosovo and deserves to lose it. The intelligent choice for Serbia is to face reality and get on with rebuilding their economy and political structures with an eye toward EU membership. If they can play nice with their neighbors for 20 years they will look back and realize what absolute folly Serbian policy was in these past decades. National suicide. So call me names, attack my maturity, take whatever shot you wish. The more you bluster, the more you make my point. I did use the Albanian spelling of the regions name when referring the former province as an independent state because that will be the spelling at that time. - a guest Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:42:45 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/835-kosovo-curtain-raiser-for-iraq-still-in-search-of-a-solution.html#comment-1035 Naive is the best way I can describe the arguments that the Kosovo supporter in this discussion has expressed. A victim of media distortion is a likely diagnosis. The need to take side and have bad guys and good guys in every battle is irresistible, so yes we all believe that you are a 100% American. I will be brief: whatever the process and solution for Kosovo is, it needs to be applied without a single change to the Bosnian Serbs and Croats. The "international community" is trying (by force) to keep Bosnia (a confederation!) together without really giving the opportunity to the Serbian republic to vote and decide if it wants to be an independent state. Why? Only a few miles away the same "international community" is working hard to achieve a 180 degree different outcome: session of a Serbian province. For the US democracy is just an empty word, as it was when we went to war in Iraq to "spread" it. Selective application of democracy is equal to no democracy. US is not spreading democracy: it is trying, and badly failing to dictate to the world. Double standards and principe-less US foreign policy, based on force only, will fail in Kosovo and in Iraq. Based on Kosovo model is US going to start partitioning Iraq right now. After all, the violence in Kosovo was nothing, nothing compared to the sectarian violence that is happening under US occupation in Iraq. Having same standards in conducting our foreign policy would certainly help US (re)gain a few more friends around the world and save American lifes. Do we care? - a guest Tue, 30 Jan 2007 06:36:35 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/835-kosovo-curtain-raiser-for-iraq-still-in-search-of-a-solution.html#comment-1034 first of all if you are saying that Kosovo will be independent then YES you are implying that Serbia has no right to defend its territory, its internationally recognised borders???!! how can you say your comment was "misconstructed"? so my comment about Bosnia is "irrelevant" yet yours about Slovenia isn't??? what a joke. the Serbs never "attacked" the Slovenians, if you knew the facts you would mention that it was Serbs and all Yugoslavs who were invloved in a battle that lasted around 2 weeks which was initaited by the Slovenes declaring independence with the use of force (you can even see evidence for this in the highly anti-serb "The Death of Yugoslavia" documentary on google video). your next comments are typical cnn nonsense and simple rhetoric. the war in Bosnia was a civil war in which 100,000 people died, 35,000 of those people were SERBS! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War#Casualties did these serbian victims inflict "teror" on themselves? your attempt to present "The Serbs" as the aggressor will work on those same people in the USA who still think that the weapons of mass destruction will show up in Iraq one day. you say that the situation with the Kurds etc is irrelevant? you are totally wrong because you can not give one minority in one nation something which will not be demanded by other minorities around the world as well (Kurds in Turkey etc). That is the precise reason that Kosovo has NOT been "given' independence after 8 years of NATO controlling the Serbian provence?!?! Illyrain???? man you are totally out of your league now TOTALLY, the first time the word Albanian was ever mentioned in the Balkans was in the 12th century (600 years after the word Serb). Before that Albanians lived in waht is now the nation of Azerbaijan as you can see here;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_Albania There is not 1 Albanian source that has ever made the "Illyrian" claim from prior to the 19th century, which was after the Albanians saw the Serbs and Croats making this claim, that was the original foundation of the idea of Yugoslavia (even as Napoleon said the lands where the Croats and Serbs are make up the Illyrian lands) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_provinces As for who lived and was by far the majority population in Kosovo for the last 1,000 years that is so easily addressed, just look at the link below. The Albanians started to form a majority not so long ago and the word Kosovo itself is a Serbian word (this is too easy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Kosovo you say "pay no attention to the ww2 era" hahaha man you are a joke. for more on the Albanian Nazis in ww2 look up; Albanian SS Skenderbeg Division in any search engine. Pathetic. for the record you are german? HAHAHAH and you say kosova???? pathetic, just pathetic that you have to hide who you are and it is also very pathetic the same land the Albanians are stealing now carries a Serbian name for you. And yes it is pathetic even if you change 1 letter in the word. Amature. - a guest Tue, 30 Jan 2007 06:35:51 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/835-kosovo-curtain-raiser-for-iraq-still-in-search-of-a-solution.html#comment-1022 a. Guest misconstrued my previous remark. I did not say Serbia "lost a right to Kosovo". I said they lost their right to participate in cooperative, multi-ethnic governance of any of the former Yugoslav republics. They attacked the Slovenes who had practically no ethnically Serb populace. They razed Vukovar to in reaction to Croat efforts to secede. They then went on to incite brutality in Bosnia rather than engage in dialogue. At every turn, when presented the opportunity to find common ground and work toward a mutually acceptable outcome, the Serbian leadership chose the path of ethnic division, violence, and atrocity. They continue to choose that path. A. Guest drags in many irrelevant arguments concerning Bosnia, Turkey, Kurds, etc... None of this is relevant to the question at hand. The assertion that the land now known as Kosovo has never been under Albanian control is relevant but is false. Never mind the claims of Illyrian ancestry which many Albanian historians pursue. Ignore the 500 years of Turkish domination under which the ethnically Albanian population was clearly in control of Kosovo. Pay no attention to the WWII era as A. Guest points out. The only relevant period of control of Kosovo by Albanians occurred in the Yugoslavian era when the constitution of Yugoslavia guaranteed Kosovo autonomy. The attempt by the Serbs to revoke this autonomy precipitated the war in Kosovo. Had they approached the Albanian majority with equitable terms of confederation, the bloodshed could have been avoided. As I said before, the choice is up to the Serbs. Choose a policy of peaceful coexistence and the nations of Serbia and Kosova will enter the EU with a bright future. Choose bellicose nationalism and no good will come of it. For the record, I am an American of Irish and German descent and have no historical tie to the Kosovo issue. - a guest Tue, 30 Jan 2007 04:58:31 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/835-kosovo-curtain-raiser-for-iraq-still-in-search-of-a-solution.html#comment-1016 based on what? based on the fact that armed Albanian rebels started killing Serb police and army?? What did you expect for the Serbs to sit back and let them do so?? I think not, no nation would allow this theft of 15% of its land. what would the USA do if the Mexicans in the South West started to fight for "independence" of the SW lands? the albanian muslim ally Turkey has killed over 30,000 Kurds who have demanded the same, why don't we hear about this. If the Albanians were fighting a "just" battle for "the right for self determination" they would have supported the Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia to gain the same thing they are fighting for in Kosovo, instead their war criminal leader, Agim Ceku, actually went to Croatia to fight the Serbs there!!?? Why? Because the enemy of your enemy is your friend when you are about to steal a land whcih never belonged to you. In this case Kosovo, which was NEVER under Albanian control in history. Sorry, it was for 4 years in ww2 when the Albanian ally Hitler gave it to them in thanks for their service in the SS SKendergeg division. - a guest Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:58:23 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/835-kosovo-curtain-raiser-for-iraq-still-in-search-of-a-solution.html#comment-1014 Kosovo will be independent. Serbia lost it's right to claim participation in cooperative, multi-ethnic governance by responding to the break-up of Yugoslavia with violence, nationalism, and brutality. The only choice the Serbs have left is whether they will handle the secession of Kosovo in a manner that leaves open the possibility of bilateral cooperation or if they will sow the seeds of future conflict. - a guest Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:16:50 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/835-kosovo-curtain-raiser-for-iraq-still-in-search-of-a-solution.html#comment-1012 Congratulations to Brian Barder for actually knowing the facts behind the attack on Serbia, and about the Rambouillet agreement being used as a pretext for the attack. Really good, well-informed article. Not only are we now seeing the results of an ill thought out strategy in Kosovo, but also in Iraq (which could never have happened without the precedent being set by the attack on Serbia). Where are all of those voices such as George Robertson's, who spoke of a multicultural utopia? And where were the same antiwar voices during the 1999 attack?? What a shame that it wasn't a cause celebre; an acceptable bandwagon - it would have saved thousands of innocent lives. The reality in Kosovo today is very ugly and will continue to affect the rest of Europe. The only half decent report to have been sseen on British TV was by Jonathan Dimbleby, which showed the terror that still exists there today. - a guest Tue, 30 Jan 2007 01:17:44 +0100