Comments for Crash Canada: Robert Dziekanski's Short Citizenship at http://www.pacificfreepress.com , comment 1 to 28 out of 20 comments http://www.pacificfreepress.com Wed, 03 Dec 2008 06:26:13 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1592 As an immgrant in US, I had had an impression that RCMP is better than the American immigration officiers before the Dziekanski incident. If the friendly and peaceful Canadian citizens do not stand up against this brutality, it will ruin your beautiful country. - gogoba Sat, 01 Dec 2007 05:33:00 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1563 If one picture is only worth a thousand words, then this video is the priceless testament to the collective stupidity of man. How many Canadian viewers of it remain assured that their personal security has been upheld by the evidently flawed functioning of Canada's megamillion dollar border security system and specifically by the actions of those four mental midgets in police uniforms who certainly did not fulfill, at least my own, expectations of the professionalism and efficacy of the fabled RCMP? How many would still trust those four with the appropriate use of a baton, not to mention the gun or that debacled electrical straightjacket also known as the taser, if they were to be on the receiving end of this type of "police activity" that looked more like an execution at the O.K Coral? Certainly some revisions are in order. For a start, perhaps goons should be excluded from the service in Canada's prestigious military/paramilitary formations. Moreover, the protocol for dealing with similar situations should be rectified. If four men are dispatched to deal with one man armed with a paper stapler then, they are expected to demonstrate their sophisticated policing skills, not eagerness to use a "hot gadget" on a living body, if only to reassure the public that they warrant their pasyscale, not to mention the descalating effect it would have on the tense situation at hand. Specifically, they should first try to effectively COMMUNICATE with their subject and only then attempt to disarm him using their gloved HANDS. Afterall, they must have been trained in some sort of unarmed combat during the basic training in police college, because anyone can aim, pull the trigger and not miss at arms length. All RCMP officers should be at least partially bilingual and in the case of their subject's apparent unfamiliarity with English, they should attempt to communicate with him in French and then perhaps in another language, especially if they are assigned to an international airport. It seems that none of the above reasonable common sense principles were followed in this regrettably tragic incident, at a considerable financial and moral cost to the Canadian public. - spearman Thu, 22 Nov 2007 01:55:55 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1555 What an ugly world we have created when people believe the double think they are fed... be afraid, everyone is a terrorist... your mother is a terrorist... look, that little boy with a ball... there is no end to the madness... fear, propagated by think tanks of corporate world that will bludgeon you into submission... wake up sheeple... the terrorists are the ones that murder, distorting the truth, fleeing the scene and in complete control... Satan will come to us in the end claiming he is our savior... fools, you live in 1984 and you don't even know it... - misanthrope Mon, 19 Nov 2007 05:17:31 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1554 This is addressed to "What is?" Sir, or Ma'am, there is a very wise saying: Sometimes you look much smarter when you don't open your mouth. I suggest you think about it in the future before voicing your absolutely dumb opinion. Thanks God, there are still more smart people in this world, than morons. - Mira Sandor Mon, 19 Nov 2007 02:39:33 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1553 I had dreams of migrating to Canada to live at West Van. No way now! You can have your 'Canada Today' It was the 'Canada Yesterday' that I fell in Love with. It appears there is a War against the Citizen and liberty. My heart aches for Robert, he needed a translator. Is it a criteria that every one learns English to stay alive now. Oh dear..what have we done. - Lozza Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:36:06 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1552 I completely agree that this incident reflects both official incompetence and also a complete abdication of the fair and human values which Canada has stood for during much of our history. This brutish decline into insensitive arrogance should give any civilised person reason to reflect. It is a fact that new immigrants, sometimes even minor children, are routinely held incommunicado at YVR for more than 4-6 hours while awaiting processing of embassy-issued and carefully scrutinized documents. In today's world, it's a fact that immigrants spend as much as 12-20 hours more in transit. The combined stress of lengthy high-altitude confinement and atmosphere; distorted circadian rhythms resulting from jet-lag; high-security scrutiny, and uncertainty about actual admission to Canada following the lengthy and costly immigration process, is very likely to leave even the strongest of English-speaking people under profound stress and confusion. It is a fact that, even when repeated inquiries to Immigration Canada are made about incoming passengers by those waiting to greet them, it is official policy not to respond. Not everyone waiting for passengers at YVR lives in Vancouver. Sometimes they must travel for hours to get there, wait for late arrivals, and later yet, for immigration processing. It is a fact that while awaiting processing immigrants are held in an enclosed space, without access to food, refreshments or translation services, and are denied the ability to communicate with their Canadian sponsors or families. It is a fact that many people are unable to speak one of Canada's official languages. As ubiquitous as English may be, more people in the world speak Chinese; and present immigration policies allow for family reunification regardless of linguistic ability. If people disagree with that policy, they should take it up with the politicians, because it has nothing whatever to do with this discussion. Like many others, I am alarmed by the rapid militarization and dehumanization of our state security services. It appears that TASERS are much more lethal "tools" than was was previously thought. I feel that any investigation into this matter should seriously reflect on the appropriateness of official conduct at every stage of the immigration and border security process. It should also consider the recent cultural shift within our security forces. Disproportionate, deadly force may not be the most rational way to deal with stressed persons or irrational behaviour - especially when they have been subjected to extended periods of sensory, psychological, and physiological deprivation. As for the blog comments, they sometimes reflect personal views which are more informed by wishes than substance. Like the man sez: "I've got an opinion! Don't confuse me with the facts!" - Jay Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:46:42 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1551 First of all I want to apologize about my english, isn´t my native language and I don´t live in Canada. I would like to reply to ms. Frewing and ask her, How do you will feel after a long trip? And being locked up in area alone and without no communication, been honest I wouldn’t handle more than 5 hours I’m not sure if I will begin to throw things but certanly I begin swearing. Can you imagine the impotence of mr Dziekanski. I had the chance to travel to some countries including Canada, and I had also visit Prague, and believe me I have no clue of czech. So in your point of view, I won’t be able to visit Canada again, because my wife doesn’t speak English, lucky me, bachelor party!!!!!! I think that’s no excuses. I also want to go to Russia, and the only 2 word I know is STOLISHNAYA CITRUS and DA, Is that a reason to suspend my trip. In other hand, I also think that the RCMP, has no excuses to teaser a unarmed person two times, They where 4 armed and trained officers against one unarmed person that had been trough security checks after his arrival. In what the mother waiting issue, it seems that you haven’t travel for a while, even in my home town (3rd world country)that have a small airport, you don’t have the chance to view who is in the other side of the waiting area, also in the u,s is impossible to know who is waiting for you. You ask why he didn’t approach to the airport staff, Had you think that maybe that was his anger, try to communicate and had no answer or understand. Well, I got the lesson, If I want to go on vacation to any country I have to study languages, other wise I got to know the places by internet, google earth and the travel channel, I feel pity for my cousin, he is going to china next week . - GABE Sun, 18 Nov 2007 09:43:08 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1550 Dziekanski was obviously dangerous. Those police have mothers and children, and those mothers and children are happy that the police risked the dangerous suspect's life instead of their own. Think about your father or child facing Dziekanski and then ask yourself if you wouldn't want him stunned before hand-to-hand conflict. - What is? Sun, 18 Nov 2007 09:15:09 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1549 The main problem is that no one would have noticed behind the scenes, that this abusive incident happened, unless it was videotaped by the bystander--- by the way police acted, you can clearly see that it is what they do without hesitation. Now think of how many people have been, and will continue to be, abused the same way. A simple nice word in any language and a cup of coffee would have saved this man's life. It would have calmed him down and welcomed him at his new home. There are so many people in Canada, who do not speak English because they do not have to or because they are not able to. Think of it. So, Ms. Frewing, one day you could be speechless because of a simple sore throat and you may also be tased twice. Is this what you want your country to do to you or to your children? - Zenutka Sun, 18 Nov 2007 01:26:10 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1548 A Note from the Editor re: Sharen Frewing Many have noted here discomfort with Ms. Frewing's comment, and though the plus / minus for her article is unnaturally strong ( plus 24 at writing) I'm very confident hers is not a view shared by the overwhelming majority of Canadians, who are now planning mass memorial ceremonies across the country in efforts to prove to themselves, and the greater world, the actions of the RCMP do not represent the country. As to Ms. Frewing's thoughts on the issue; hers is an ad hominem attack against the author, yours truly, filled with non sequitur statements and outright untruths about the events as recorded in Vancouver that night, and a classic example of "blame the victim," ie: Why didn't he speak English? Why didn't his mother seek help?, etc. The facts that he did seek help, was not apparently resisting police, and was clearly no danger to the police, himself, or anyone else at the time of the fatal confrontation, are all incidentally disregarded by Frewer. Ms. Frewer's tactics ring familiar to anyone who's watched the disintegration of public discourse south of the border these last half-dozen years or so. They are a "Rovian," politically motivated effort to obscure the issue, and confuse the facts, (visible for all to see, save Frewer apparently, who can comment Robert was violently resisting, when the video shows that is clearly not the case). It is in short, nothing but a smoke screen. Frewer is a past (and possibly continuing) member of R. E. A. L. Women of Canada, an offshoot of the conservative social movements in the south responsible in part for the rise and rule of George W. Bush. There are provincial chapters, and she played some role here with the British Columbia chapter. R.E.A.L. Women professes to be pro-women's rights, but as their motto, a dazzling example of doublespeak reveals, they are less about women's rights than Right women. From their website, it reads: "Women's rights, but not at the expense of human rights." R.E.A.L. supports judicial activism, as seen in the U.S. culminating with the Attornies General scandal, and more to come. So poisonous has this "activism" been in the States, the entire system of justice there is in crisis, its impartiality questioned and credibility tattered. R.E.A.L. has also a religious component (Christian of course), and is proponent to the same "family values," "pro-life," and "anti-gay unions" social engineering platform made familiar every four years, or so down there. They are predictably "law enforcement, right or wrong" types who seem to see themselves engaged in a culture war. This, "with us, or against us" attitude likely allows Ms. Frewin's conscience rest easy while she misrepresents the facts, and attacks any telling truths inconvenient to hers and her fellow R.E.A.L. women's agenda. One can only hope the time of massive distortion and the vile schemings of the Rove's and Bush's and Harper's, et al is soon coming to an end. Let's hope too Ms. Frewin finds a new hobby horse that allows the light of truth and compassion, those attributes her professed saviour engender, enter her heart and find voice in her pen. lex - lex Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:59:16 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1545 I am a little disturbed by Sharon Frewing's letter. How does she know that tasering is "safe"? Has she been tasered? Several deaths have been recorded in Canada and the U.S. as a direct result of tasering. If four police officers cannot subdue one unarmed person without a taser, we, as Canadians, have to ask some serious questions about the training they receive. And, who is in charge of these officers? It is astonishing to me, that the officers involved in the Vancouver Airport incident are still on the job. This was a cruel, inhumane act! Terry B - Terry B Sat, 17 Nov 2007 16:51:44 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1544 As a Canadian citizen, I am appalled at how our government, military and law enforcement officers have escalated their abuse of power over the years. We have created a culture of totalitarian repression based on unsubstantiated fears with ever escalating police brutality against civilians, here and abroad. The murder of Robert Dziekanski at Vancouver International Airport on October 13, 2007 is an example of abusive, excessive police force and is unacceptable. Robert Dziekanski’s death was a result of incompetent intervention and racial bias. Excessive force was used where no force was necessary. The man, although agitated and disoriented, did not pose an imminent threat to the people in the terminal and was not resisting the authorities. The perception of the law enforcement officers was distorted and biased and their assessment of the situation was inaccurate. They did not take the time to ask any questions or gather any information that would have given them a more accurate assessment. Their actions were premeditated, deliberate and without restraint; aggravated assault with intent to inflict bodily harm. Robert Dziekanski was tortured without impunity, stripped of any basic human rights and then murdered as an afterthought. This is unacceptable. No consideration was given to Robert Dziekanski’s state of health, distressed situation or bizarre circumstance. With compassion and tolerance, the situation would have diffused and Robert Dziekanski would have had time to regain his composure. He was treated with complete contempt as a result of his foreign tongue. This is not a just cause to use force by any means. The fault lies with the authorities. We need to critically review our law enforcement policies and the people that we hire to carry out the task of law enforcement. This murder was brutally inhumane and will leave a permanent scare on the psyche of the Canadian people. We must address this issue to prevent such abusive escalations of force in the future. I demand that these officers be held accountable for their actions and tried for manslaughter. As a Canadian, I am deeply concerned that this government is adopting despotic police state measures that serve to dismantle and abrogate basic human rights. This is not acceptable. In light of this barbaric incident, Canada can no longer be considered a democratic country in the eyes of Canadians or anyone else in the world. This is a moral outrage, a political disgrace and a betrayal of the peoples’ confidence. It is a crime that cannot be repudiated and is in violation of basic human rights and international law. This is not acceptable. - Andriko Zavadell Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:38:32 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1543 I agree with Ted Alexander. The police in this country seem to think they are waging a war against the civilians they are meant to protect. It's not just the RCMP, it's more widespread and the rot goes deep. How in God's name can an obviously unarmed man, however upset he may have been before (it seemed he thought he would get help when the morons arrived and had calmed down) be a threat to four large, fit young men? As far as I'm concerned this was murder - perhaps bizarrely a 'legal murder', because the perpetrators are protected for now. But these four should be fired then tried for the crime they committed - first degree too, since they seem to have intended to use their toys without knowing how. This is a shameful and appalling display of arrogance and stupidity and criminality. - Penny Sat, 17 Nov 2007 06:14:20 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1542 I would like to reply to pretty ignorant comments of Sharen Frewing. If you looked deeper into this matter, you would know that his mother was waiting for him at the airport for 10 hours, begging airport personnel to help her connect with her son. She told them he did not speak English, (which btw is not a crime that qualifies for a death sentence) but no one was interested. She was trying all she could to make sure her son comes out, but her attempts were ignored. As for your question :"One has to wonder what would have happened in Poland if a Canadian, speaking no Polish, had started throwing things around in a Polish airport" I have to tell you this....There is no way, that airport personnel. immigration, security, would not notice someone hanging around in the arrival area for 10 hours. After being cleared by immigration, he should be shown the way out of there, and escorted to his mother who was waiting. Why aren't there translators in such a huge international airport? The fact that it is INTERNATIONAL airport should be indication enough that there will be people arriving from all over the world, and some might need help in their own language. I know you think everyone should speak English, but fact is, there are other languages in the world, and not every country has English as their official language. I myself didn't speak any English (but I spoke 4 other languages) when I arrived in Canada, and you have to admit that I've done pretty well with learning it. So could Robert Dziekanski do, and you have no right to call him insensible. The only insensible people were immigration, airport personnel, and of course you, who thinks, that one who does not speak YOUR language, deserves to die. To me that borders on racism. Tasers are not totally bad, but have to be used by trained people who understand their affect on human body. One does not have to have any medical condition to die, when they are jolted with 50,000 volts, then jumped by 4 men, so they can't even take a breath in. That incident was at least a criminal negligence. Some might even call it a murder. I do not wish anything bad on anyone, be it an understanding, compassionate one or ignorant like yourself. I just wonder what tune would you be singing if one of your innocent relatives, disturbed for some reason, and acting erratically died in same exact manner? - Mira Sandor Sat, 17 Nov 2007 03:01:50 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1541 Dear Sharen, a)The article talks about a "Canadian Resident"..., thats different to a "Canadian citizen", maybe you speak english, but it seems you don´t get it or have no idea about the difference. b)That area of the airport is restricted for non-airport users, I guess you would never got in there as well, probably that happened to Mrs. Sofia. (Robert Mother) c)You are right, he did not speak english, his fault?, I dont think so, why migration authorities don´t ask for an english proficiency test or similar before a visa is granted?. d)Approach staff for help?, the video takes the last minutes of a 10 hour siege. What happened before I don´t know, but probably upon arrival he had a good mood, just picture this: the first day of a new life you have choosen in a new, big wealthy and beautiful country. You just don´t start things like that throwing chairs away. Think about it... e) No excuse to throw things???, would you travel to a foreign country and stay 10, 20, 30 hours..., no no no let me re-phrase that, lets say 10 days without assistance, without knowing the language, in a different country and culture?. I guess you will do really strange things. To throw the chair (to inanimated objects by the way) is the only language everybody understands: he was saying I AM HERE HELP ME (probably he didn´t have in mind to destroy the airport). By the way, it took 10 hours because he started to throw things away after 10 hours, probably a more patient person had waited 20 or 30 hours more. f) Say the word "Poland", really???, and what his passport said???, do the migration autorities deal with passports?, do they read???, do they know where is Poland?, do they know what people speak in Poland?. I don´t think he was the first polish in canadian soil. g) Officers at risk?, yeahhh... four guys, in a robocop style uniform, against a tired and stressed man (remember he was in an airport: for sure he was unarmed and went through security checks). To End: a tragedy is the sum of little errors, and the errors in my opinion in this case started as soon Mr. Robert left the airplane, is not just a police abuse case alone, migration and airport authorities share responsibilities. To the airport authorities just a thought: ""Welcome to Vancouver "Abu Ghraib" Airport. No dogs, but plenty of tasers. Atention: If you bring drugs you can face jail, throwing chairs is death penalty"" To Robert: peace to your soul... - The Saint Sat, 17 Nov 2007 02:37:59 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1540 When cops use tasers, they must be prepared to deal immediately with the consequences. That means being trained in CPR and having an automated defibrillator (AED) immediately available. What actions did they take after Mr Dziekanski collapsed? If they were unprepared to deal with it, I consider it to be criminal negligence. - mike gordon Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:46:47 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1539 This is a sad event, but people in Canada don't go around smashing and destroying private property when upset. If you don't like Canada, then don't come here, no one is asking you too, but if you do, maybe you should learn to behave in a civilized way. The RCMP didn't attack and kill him, maybe you should rewatch the video. Of course its the RCMP's fault, as all you ignorant people promptly spit out, yet you fail to look at the whole picture. This was a failure by everyone involved, including Mr.Dziekankski, YVR Airport Authority, Canada Customs, Condor (the airline), the bystanders who did nothing except videotape this, YVR Security, and the RCMP. There is no way the officers knew this man would die when tasered, so accusing them of murdering them is extremely ignorant. and how is money paid to his mother going to help? The only way to compensate his mother would be to ensure this doesn't happen again. - Reality Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:34:00 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1538 Our "illustrious" R.C.M.P. are slowly but surely disintegrating what respect they have left from the public, and it's not much. A local friend of mine ( and a former decorated police officer ) was brutally handled at a local R.C.M.P. detachment last year, and because of that he ended up with a severe concussion and huge gash on the back of his head, which was NEVER explained. He was taken in because he was observed sitting in his parked vehicle and drinking (with no keys in the ignition). Because of the pressures of his former position as an officer, he had been suffering from an alcohol problem, but he offered no resistance at the time of arrest, yet was treated with the same callousness as Mr. Dziekanski. This type of officious, arrogant behaviour is running rampant within our R.C.M.P. throughout Canada, and has to be addressed. I agree with the above totally - that they are civil SERVANTS, not God, and they can damn well stop acting like it. My deep condolences to Ms. Cisowski, and I sincerely hope those four officers are stripped of their badges and charged. - Ted Alexander Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:18:44 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1536 He is just trying to put some stuff to prevent this one-way door from closing. He went to public waiting area before looking for his mother and couldn't come back to laggage area (she told him to wait there by mistake). Lorne Meltzer let him in using his pass. He just wanted to check waiting area again and be able to come back. - Nocomments Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:45:43 +0100 http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/1869-crash-canada-robert-dziekanskis-short-citizenship.html#comment-1535 Being another 40-years old male Central European, as Robert Dziekanski was, I am shocked by the way RCMP/Canada treats us, if we don't speak English, are thirsty, hungry, lost and frustrated. The man was alone, unarmed, not threatining anybody. Four fully armed, well-trained, strong RCMP officers attacked him and killed him within a minute. Is that what is waiting for us in Canada? I was always willing to visit Vancouver and British Columbia, as I was told, it is the most beautiful part of Canada. Now I have serious doubts, whether I ever want to visit a place, where innocent travelers are promptly killed by security forces. I think Canada now has a duty to overview its police training and force using policies. The Canadian government cannot give back her only son to Ms. Zofia Cisowski, they should at least apologize and pay a significant compensation for the loss they caused. - Attila Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:36:38 +0100